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Date:	12/2/99 8:02:02 PM Pacific Standard Time<BR>
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Traveller-digest     Thursday, December 2 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1433<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Different technologies<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1424<BR>
Re: YKYBPTMTW...<BR>
Re Northern Exposure<BR>
Re: Why Visit Other Worlds?<BR>
3d Tigress (was: ping...maybe)<BR>
Re SDB's<BR>
Re: Stopping the world...<BR>
Re: Stopping the world...<BR>
Re: stopping the world<BR>
Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
Re: Why Visit Other Worlds?<BR>
Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
50ton Heavy Fighter<BR>
RE: 3d Tigress (was: ping...maybe)<BR>
102 Vehicles<BR>
Re: LEO's<BR>
Re: One of our worlds is missing!<BR>
Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
Re:  LEO<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 14:39:22 +1300<BR>
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
Subject: Re: Different technologies<BR>
<BR>
On 3 Dec 99, at 1:38, Matthew Bond wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> <BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz><BR>
> <snip><BR>
> Note that (according to GT, anyway) the Vilani discovered jump once <BR>
> they'd reached the outer reaches of their solar system, too. IMO it's<BR>
> simply that you need to get outside the 100 diameter radius of your star<BR>
> before things will work properly. Inside and all you've got is a exotic<BR>
> way of making lots of research dollars disappear.<BR>
> <BR>
> --<BR>
> Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
> Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
> ----------------------------------------------------------<BR>
> <BR>
> Not that you *need* an exotic method to make research dollars vanish...<BR>
> <g><BR>
<BR>
Ahh, but this way it's literal.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz><BR>
Wellington, New Zealand<BR>
<BR>
A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:19:47 -0500<BR>
From: "Chris Seamans" <semo@pil.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1424<BR>
<BR>
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Wouldn't that be Book *9*?  Book *8* was "Robots", IIRC.<BR>
<BR>
No, that's part of the conspiracy. Book *9* was supposed to be Robots, book<BR>
8 was supposed to be "Higher Guard".<BR>
<BR>
>And anyway, the "Other" was *clearly* not a hippie nor a rogue (we have<BR>
*Rogues* for<BR>
> *that*).<BR>
<BR>
Rogues were added later, to clearly delineate the Other as a hippie type<BR>
character.<BR>
<BR>
>The Other career was *clearly* a reflection of Kafka's<BR>
> conception of the "Other" as the disenfranchised alien who has been<BR>
> seperated from his own sociopsychological weltenschaung...hmm, I guess<BR>
> that *is* a rogue or hippie after all!  Oh well, never mind!<BR>
<BR>
Ha! ;)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:13:12 -0500<BR>
From: "Micheal D. Peters" <Travelleri@home.com><BR>
Subject: Re: YKYBPTMTW...<BR>
<BR>
Or even worse...<BR>
<BR>
At 23 you see the rules for Travller and think " Why does it have rolls for<BR>
ageing at 35?"<BR>
<BR>
then an email comes along and reminds you, and you realize your 44 and have<BR>
failed those rolls SINCE your 35th birthday, and that, maybe, Marc was being<BR>
a bit too generous!<BR>
<BR>
Mike<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: Dr. Nik <sharik@barrayar.demon.co.uk><BR>
To: Traveller Mailing List <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 12:10 PM<BR>
Subject: YKYBPTMTW...<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> ... You wake up the day after your 34th birthday and think 'Oh my God!<BR>
> Next year I start making ageing rolls!'<BR>
><BR>
> Nik<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:15:38 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re Northern Exposure<BR>
<BR>
><<Alaska & Anchorage info snipped>><BR>
><BR>
>What about Cicily ?  8-)<BR>
><BR>
Ah, I wish it existed. The feel is right, however, for many of the smaller<BR>
towns... those on roadgrids... And the portrayal of Bikers being laywers<BR>
and Doctors, well, that really was the case with a significant fraction of<BR>
the Hell's Angels in Fairbanks. The attitudes are right for southcentral<BR>
alaska, not southeast. The look is right, too. Alaskans who've seen the<BR>
show either love it or hate it... it's "almost alaskan". And yes, Bush<BR>
pilots really do tend to be as flaky as Maggie...<BR>
<BR>
Ob Trav: I wonder how much of peoples perceptions will be tainted by<BR>
fictionalized settlements. IMTU, most smaller worlds simply import<BR>
video-content en masse from the neighboring hi-pop worlds. Even if not a<BR>
cultural or governmental colony, areas too small for full spectrum<BR>
entertainment nets locally will be an "entertainment colony" of larger<BR>
areas. Which is why I like to create areas around high-pops with common<BR>
cultural facets from the imported entertainment.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 18:34:26 -0800<BR>
From: shudson@lightspeed.bc.ca (Steven Hudson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Why Visit Other Worlds?<BR>
<BR>
>From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca><BR>
...<BR>
>No, you're *completely* wrong.  There are in fact *three* reasons a<BR>
>*rational* person would visit other worlds.  The *obvious* answer is that<BR>
>you can 1) make money, 2) kill them, 3) date alien chicks (== f*** them).<BR>
<BR>
  Any advice on techniques, Mr. Shatner?        :)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 13:33:17 +1000<BR>
From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Subject: 3d Tigress (was: ping...maybe)<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Jesse said:<BR>
>The good news is that<BR>
>those of you yearning for a Tigress or AHL will finally have your wish =D<BR>
<BR>
Yip-yip-yippee!!<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 17:41:38 -0900<BR>
From: "William F. Hostman" <aramis@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re SDB's<BR>
<BR>
>What would expect the rank of a SDB Fleet Commander to be? I'm talking<BR>
>about the dude<BR>
>(or dude-ete) who's in chage of all the SDBs in a system. Not a squadron<BR>
>commander.<BR>
>Would this rate an Admiral? Commodore? Commander? Captain? Bueler? Bueler?<BR>
><BR>
>Andy<BR>
Hmm... IMTU I use the following organization<BR>
System Navy: All ships in the System Navy Typically the one 4-Star. Large<BR>
system Navies might have a 5-star.<BR>
Fleet: 3 or more 'Rons Typically a VADM but may be an RADM.<BR>
Group: Occasional term for something bigger than a 'Ron and Smaller than a<BR>
Fleet. Typically a senior Commodore or a RADM<BR>
'Ron: 12 Line Ships and their escorts, or 12 lines of smaller ships<BR>
Typically a Commodore's command<BR>
TaskForce: operational but not administrative unit comprise of 2-20 lines.<BR>
Typpically commanded by either a commodore from some staff unit or by the<BR>
senior Captain.<BR>
Line: For ships of the line (10KTd or more), one ship and it's assigned<BR>
escorts. For smaller ships in the 1-10KTd range, 2-4 ships. For Under 1KTd,<BR>
typically 5-12 ships. Typically commanded by a Captain.<BR>
<BR>
SDB's typically are commanded by LCDR or CDR, the senior man in a line of<BR>
5-12 being a CDR and skipper of one of the boats. A Line of SDB's would<BR>
have a Captain. An SysDefRon, typically some 60-150 SDB's, is a Commodore's<BR>
command... maybe an RADM. Typically, however, IMTU you don't find<BR>
SysDefRons as other than admin units, and only a few worlds have the<BR>
capability for more than one... and said capability is often split with<BR>
Patrol Cutters.<BR>
<BR>
In a very wealthy system (TLC+, Pop 9+), the system defense navy will have<BR>
a 4-star... and the several lines of SDB's are part of each of the DefRons.<BR>
Typical DefRon: 3 lines of SDB's, 3 of Patrol Cutters, 3 lines of CE's in<BR>
the 1-5KTd range, 2 lines of DD's, 1 line of a CL. So we have (1 CL + 2 DE)<BR>
+ 2(1DD + 2 CE)+ 3(3 CE) + 3 (5 PC) + 3(9 SDB) under a Commodore, maybe an<BR>
RADM.<BR>
Hmm... that's<BR>
1 CL<BR>
2 DD<BR>
13 CE<BR>
15 PC<BR>
27 SDB<BR>
as typical...<BR>
<BR>
Why would you separate them out totally separate for a "Defense Fleet". By<BR>
keeping at least one mixed DefRon, you make the Ron non-deployable... and<BR>
as a system fleet, that helps prevent imperial activiation.<BR>
<BR>
William F. Hostman  |  "Smith & Wesson: THe original Point and Click<BR>
interface!"<BR>
Aramis 0602 C55A364-C S kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge-<BR>
533<BR>
Mailto:aramis@gci.net http://home.gci.net/~aramis mailto:wilh@alaska.com<BR>
ICQ:14640742          AIM:AKAramis	ARM 1.0: 3 R H++ P+<BR>
IMTU 1.0: tc tm++ tn- t4-- tt+ to- tg-- ru+ ge 3i+ c+ jt-() au+ st- ls<BR>
pi+() ta+ he+(-) kk+ as+ hi+ dr+ va++(--) so+ zh++ vi+ da++ sy- ge- pi+<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 18:39:41 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Stopping the world...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
>> Not quite.  Tidally locked worlds still rotate, they just do it in step<BR>
>> with their orbital motion.  Of course if you want to specify that the<BR>
>> world has been reduced to a tide-locked state from a state of<BR>
>> rotating every 24 hours or so, the effects would be almost the<BR>
>> same.<BR>
><BR>
> Point conceded.  In the event of a true cessation of rotation, does <BR>
> that mean, then the the day now equals the sidereal year?  Still has <BR>
> nasty effects on the ecology and weather patterns, but after the <BR>
> melting of most of the planet's surface, what does it matter, right?<BR>
<BR>
Since rotation is an *absolute* rather than a relative (that is,<BR>
unlike velocity, all observers will agree on your rate of rotation, as<BR>
adjusted for their time rate), "stopped" means stopped with respect to<BR>
the entire universe. <BR>
<BR>
Thus your your sidereal rotation period will be *zero*. Your year will<BR>
be the same as your solar day.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 16:40:44 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Stopping the world...<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Good morning, All,<BR>
><BR>
> Yesterday, I encountered an unusual thought exercise that immediately <BR>
> made me think of the various levels of expertise in the hard sciences <BR>
> here on the TML.  That being so, I figured I'd share some of the <BR>
> preliminary thoughts.<BR>
><BR>
> What would happen if you could suddenly stop the world from spinning <BR>
> on its axis?  Assume that all physical laws remain intact, beyond the <BR>
> one exception that someone or something could stop the Earth, or a <BR>
> planet of your choice, from spinning.<BR>
><BR>
> First, the obvious answer that most people come up with is "Everybody <BR>
> falls down."  Yes, and so do buildings, vegetation, certain terrain <BR>
> types, etc.  Suddenly the world stops, but inertia keeps you going at <BR>
> an incredible rate.  (My best friend quoted something around 900 <BR>
> miles per second, but I don't have the figures to back it up.  <BR>
> That's one hell of a skinned knee.)<BR>
<BR>
The circumference of the earth is about 24,000 miles. It takes 24 hours<BR>
to rotate once. So to a first approximation, the velocity at the<BR>
equator is about 1000 miles per *hour*. Still bad, but not as bad as<BR>
what you said above. <BR>
<BR>
At the poles, "nothing" will happen, because they aren't rotating. <BR>
<BR>
In between the velocity depends on (I think) the cosine of the<BR>
latitude. <BR>
<BR>
So we'd have *supersonic* winds up to around 40 or 45 degrees latitude.<BR>
<BR>
I'm not sure *what* the oceans would be doing. <BR>
<BR>
BTW, if the "stop" effect isn't well focused, you might get the *crust*<BR>
of the planet skating around on the mantle. After all what's a dozen<BR>
miles out of a 4000 mile radius?<BR>
<BR>
> Contrary to some belief, people would not go flying off into space.<BR>
> The rotational speed of the Earth, and I assume for most other<BR>
> planets, generally does not exceed escape velocity for its gravity,<BR>
> so when inertia kicks in, people go flying for a bit, then hit the<BR>
> ground really hard and really fast.  (This point lead to a very<BR>
> interesting discussion with a young lady who was sure that the<BR>
> reason we have gravity was because the world was spinning. It took a<BR>
> while to talk her out of that one, and I'm not sure we were actually<BR>
> successful.)<BR>
<BR>
Rotational speed *can't* approach escape velocity. If it does, the<BR>
planet comes apart.<BR>
<BR>
> Inertia would also cause the oceans to swell heavily to the east<BR>
> (for Earth,) and wash up onto the coasts on the east side of the<BR>
> oceans in large waves.  Then, the water would slosh back, slamming<BR>
> the western coasts with waves not quite as devastatingly high.  <BR>
> Eventually, the oceans would settle back into their beds, but not <BR>
> before many of the larger aquatic life had died from the turbulence.<BR>
<BR>
Give that at the equator the velocity difference is around 1000 mph,<BR>
they'll do a lot more than "swell". The question is *how much* more?<BR>
<BR>
> Creatures and/or technological devices in flight would be tossed, <BR>
> tumbling, through the air in the direction of the previous rotation <BR>
> of the planet as the atmosphere suddenly scoured the planet's <BR>
> surface, continuing to move that direction due to inertia as well.  <BR>
<BR>
Nope. They continue along just fine *until* the turbulence caused by<BR>
the air moving over the ground reached whatever altitude they were at.<BR>
After all, if the *air* retains the old velocity, so does anything *in*<BR>
it. <BR>
<BR>
> Also, if one looks at the conservation of momentum, then as soon as <BR>
> the world stops spinning, the momentum must be transferred somewhere. <BR>
<BR>
True. But by the same reasoning, it'd be transferred to whatever<BR>
produced the forces that *stopped* the planet. <BR>
<BR>
And it's the *angular* momentum that is being changed, not the linear<BR>
momentum. So the "stopper" would have to start *spinning* at a high<BR>
rate of speed. :-)<BR>
 <BR>
>  One of the effects of this would be the pushing of the planet <BR>
> outside it's former plane of orbit about its primary/star. <BR>
<BR>
Nope. Nothing has changed the *orbit*, and the angular momentum of the<BR>
earth *around the sun* is a seperate entity from the angular momentum<BR>
of the earth about its axis.<BR>
<BR>
> direction, out of the plane it used to orbit in.  Someone on the <BR>
> south pole at the time the world's rotation was stopped would be <BR>
> launched into the air, as the world started moving north out of the <BR>
> plane of revolution at a high rate of speed, relatively.  Someone of <BR>
> the north pole would be slammed to the ground at a relatively high <BR>
> rate of speed, for much the same reason.  (This is according to my <BR>
> friend.  I personally have doubts on this point, at least as far <BR>
> as the person standing on either pole being so dramatically <BR>
> affected by the shift in direction of planet movement.)<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, the vectors just plain *don't* work that way. He's confusing a<BR>
notational convention for angular momentum vectors (having them point<BR>
up or down along the axis of rotation) with the *actual* direction of<BR>
the angular momentum. <BR>
<BR>
> Should anything survive the initial chaos, the world is now tidally <BR>
> locked, with all the incumbent changes in weather patterns as the <BR>
> differences in temperature that arise from being tidally locked <BR>
> around a primary star.  (You know, the sunny side gets hot, the shady <BR>
> side gets cold, and life sucks anywhere except at some band parallel <BR>
> to the "twilight band," depending on the ambient temperatures at a <BR>
> particular range from the "twilight band.")<BR>
<BR>
Actually, this isn't true. If you *completely* stopped the rotation,<BR>
then the planet is *not* "stopped with respect to the *sun*, but with<BR>
respect to the "fixed stars". So the length of the day and the length<BR>
of the year would be the same. <BR>
<BR>
> ObTrav:  Perhaps a weapon that could do this was used in the Final<BR>
> War of the Ancients 300,000 years ago. It would seem to me that this<BR>
> would quickly destroy almost all complex life within the biosphere<BR>
> of the planet in question.  Could this explain why there are so many<BR>
> tidally locked worlds, relatively speaking, in the OTU? <BR>
<BR>
Given that on an earth-like world the velocity difference on the<BR>
majority of the planet are *supersonic*, it'd pretty much wipe out<BR>
surface life and ocean life. You'd still have the "deep rock" bacteria<BR>
as a reservior for life to spread from. But it'd take a *long* time,<BR>
since they don't do well in oxygen atmospheres. Not that the oxygen in<BR>
the atmosphere will last long (a few hundred to a few thousand years as<BR>
the O2 reacts with all this leftover organic material). <BR>
<BR>
It's possible that various single cell organisms would survive, it<BR>
depends on how much *heat* gets generated by the friction as the<BR>
atmosphere and ocean come to rest. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
> Could this explain why there are so many tidally locked worlds,<BR>
> relatively speaking, in the OTU?<BR>
<BR>
Nope. Because as I noted, it doesn't result in a tidally locked world.<BR>
It results in a "one-day planet" (to swipe a phrase). A planet with a<BR>
day as long as its year. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 18:44:38 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: stopping the world<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Jason Kemp wrote:<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
> What would happen if you could suddenly stop the world from spinning <BR>
> on its axis?  Assume that all physical laws remain intact, beyond the <BR>
> one exception that someone or something could stop the Earth, or a <BR>
> planet of your choice, from spinning.<BR>
>>>>>>>>>><BR>
> I take it that there's some effect to this world-stopper that stops the<BR>
> mass of the world itself from rotating, and not the hydrosphere, <BR>
> atmosphere or anything upon it. Considering how heterogenous much<BR>
> of the planet is, why does the weapon not affect the people, the water,<BR>
> and the air the same way it affects the planet? <BR>
<BR>
Well, consider that the oceans, etc are a *very* thin skin on a planet.<BR>
The deepest trench is only 7 miles deep, and the tallest mountian is<BR>
around 5 miles. That gives 12 miles as a range.<BR>
<BR>
The radius of the planet is about 4000 miles. 12/4000 = .003. That's a<BR>
*minscule* fraction of the radius. <BR>
<BR>
Thus the "easy" answer is that they were off a trifle in setting the<BR>
radius of effect. :-)<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1999 13:08:01 +1000<BR>
From: "The Roc" <roc@kewl.com.au><BR>
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
- ----- Original Message -----<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
To: <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com><BR>
Sent: Friday, December 03, 1999 12:39 AM<BR>
Subject: Re: early christian writings and roman rumors<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
><BR>
> I'm sure that if we did enough research we could find several<BR>
> examples of people changing in the opposite direction. As for<BR>
> me, I myself have read the Bible, "to see what all the shouting<BR>
> was about". Guess what, I'm still an athiest.<BR>
><BR>
<BR>
Heheheheh... And I still think it's a great adventure story (for it setting<BR>
and period) that someone took to serious... ;^)<BR>
<BR>
- -- The Roc<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:13:45 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Why Visit Other Worlds?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji said:<BR>
> ><BR>
> > Well, *obviously*, because you can 1) make money and 2) kill them.  What<BR>
> > other reason, *realistically*, do you think people *rationally* need?<BR>
<BR>
Then Chuck replies:<BR>
> <BR>
> No, you're *completely* wrong.  There are in fact *three* reasons a<BR>
> *rational* person would visit other worlds.  The *obvious* answer is that<BR>
> you can 1) make money, 2) kill them, 3) date alien chicks (== f*** them).<BR>
<BR>
If you're going to discuss the third item, at least in the OTU a lot of<BR>
the off-planet chicks are human anyway, it's their culture that'll be<BR>
different. It's left up to the imagination the mating practices of the<BR>
Vilani and Zhodani, not to mention the other human MINOR races.<BR>
<BR>
Imagine the report from the initial human expedition to Barnard's Star...<BR>
<BR>
"Yes sir, at least our male crew members were not without companionship<BR>
of the...ahem..."alien" humans. And our female crew members were,<BR>
surprised, to say the least, of the same."<BR>
<BR>
This topic could EASILY become an off-list discussion! :) :)<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 22:16:02 -0500<BR>
From: "Josh W. Spencer" <macmanjws@earthlink.net><BR>
Subject: Re: "Aslan" name debate again<BR>
<BR>
So what DO the Aslan call **themselves**?? I looked throughout my MT<BR>
material and the one issue of the Travellers' Digest I have on the<BR>
Aslan. I didn't see anything in there.<BR>
<BR>
- --<BR>
Josh<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 19:29:17 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: 50ton Heavy Fighter<BR>
<BR>
Andy and I need this info for "Navy".  Has there ever been a canonical (that<BR>
a word? :) illustration of the 50DT Heavy Fighter in the past?  He's got a<BR>
killer 2d illo idea for "Navy", and I'll be modelling it and useing in<BR>
pictures as well.<BR>
<BR>
Best,<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 19:29:23 -0800<BR>
From: Jesse DeGraff <jdegraff@pacbell.net><BR>
Subject: RE: 3d Tigress (was: ping...maybe)<BR>
<BR>
Glad you could restrain yourself David ;)<BR>
Jesse<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com<BR>
[mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of<BR>
david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
Sent: Thursday, December 02, 1999 7:33 PM<BR>
To: traveller@mpgn.com<BR>
Subject: 3d Tigress (was: ping...maybe)<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Dear Folks -<BR>
<BR>
Jesse said:<BR>
>The good news is that<BR>
>those of you yearning for a Tigress or AHL will finally have your wish =D<BR>
<BR>
Yip-yip-yippee!!<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
David "Hyphen" Jaques-Watson        Beowulf Down (Tavonni/Vilis/SM 1520)<BR>
http://www.tip.net.au/~davidjw                       davidjw@pcug.org.au<BR>
"I file things in historical order, with a hashing algorithm of gravity"<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
REQ'D DISCLAIMER - material & opinions contained within are solely those<BR>
of the author and do not necessarily represent, in whole or in part, the<BR>
position of Centrelink or any other Commonwealth Government agency.<BR>
- ------------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 21:45:29 -0600<BR>
From: "Joseph R. Dietrich" <yikes@evansville.net><BR>
Subject: 102 Vehicles<BR>
<BR>
I have finally been able to get some time to do some drawings for 102<BR>
Vehicles, and I've noticed something: They're all stubby.<BR>
<BR>
Forex: Many of the buses are 6 m x 3 m x 3 m, or thereabouts. Try drawing<BR>
these out on a piece of graph paper -- heck, just block it out roughly, as a<BR>
rectangle. These are incredibly short for their height and width (Or is the<BR>
Imperium just full of "short buses."<BR>
<BR>
I assume this is a an artifact of the T4 vehicle construction system.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 20:56:22 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: LEO's<BR>
<BR>
>>thing pop up in the damndest places), and if we are to go by Stargate<BR>
>>SG-1, unless the planet is reall, really weird, all planets are<BR>
>>Vancouver ;-)<BR>
>>-- <BR>
>Stargate SG-1 also showed us that, with few exceptions, all Earth's<BR>
>languages end up evolving toward english. <BR>
<BR>
Heck, we've known that ever since the original Star Trek series.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 02 Dec 1999 20:49:22 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: One of our worlds is missing!<BR>
<BR>
>> I'd be interested to know if this phantom world shows up in Atlas or some<BR>
>> other place, and if so what its stats are marked as.<BR>
><BR>
>Just checked my Atlas.  Nothing in hex 2116 on the Old Expanses map.<BR>
<BR>
I just checked my copy of Galactic, a software package no serious Traveller<BR>
fan should be without. On the map of the 21 Worlds sector, in hex 2116, I<BR>
found a message telling me that this was a restricted area, and that my<BR>
illegal trespass was being reported to IRIS, ISIS, IBIS, IIIS, and all the<BR>
other relevant intelligence agencies.<BR>
<BR>
Seriously, you're right -- only 20 worlds in the 21 Worlds subsector, and <BR>
an X-Boat link that is six parsecs long, from Chenek (2114) to Maazel<BR>
(2110). This, despite everything I read about how X-Boats themselves are<BR>
Jump-4... Obviously, there is a conspiracy of some sort here. Someone call<BR>
agents Muldy and Sculler of the IIII.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 18:43:29 -0500<BR>
From: Robert Prior <robert_prior@sympatico.ca><BR>
Subject: Re: Bifrost-class Solar Shuttle (GTL9)<BR>
<BR>
>In mail you write:<BR>
><BR>
>>>That's the point, it's *not* the solar energy, it's the solar *wind*.<BR>
>><BR>
>> "The solar wind plays no part in solar sailing; it's important to<BR>
>> understand this from the start. The solar sail operates on sunlight<BR>
>> pressure - the pressure produced by light when it "bounces off" a mirror.<BR>
>> This force is 1,000 to 10,000 times greater than that of the solar wind,<BR>
>> and while there are many analogs between terrestrial sailing and solar<BR>
>> sailing, we must disabuse ourselves of the idea that the solar wind can<BR>
>> propel us through space."<BR>
>><BR>
>> p.17 "Starsailing: Solar Sails and Interstellar Travel" by Louis Freidman<BR>
><BR>
>Try telling that to the magsail folks! :-)<BR>
<BR>
I have no information on that. All the calculations I did are based on<BR>
light pressure.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> True, I was ignoring that. I suppose that as a lower limit on mass we could<BR>
>> assume a sheet a single molecule thick, and see what that gives for mass.<BR>
>> If it's reasonable, then I think we could handwave some form of "molecular<BR>
>> bonding" to get the material at upper-end tech levels. Of course, the first<BR>
>> cloud of thin gas and your sail would be ruined...  If even a single<BR>
>> molecule sheet is too massive, then we've established a definative<BR>
>> 'impossible'.<BR>
><BR>
>I did that in another message. Assuming essentially a couple of atoms<BR>
>of aluminum as the thickness (since you *have* to coat the sail or it<BR>
>won't reflect) and a density of 2.0 (figure the carbon and hydrogen of<BR>
>the plastic account for part of the thickness). I got a figure of<BR>
>9.14e-3 tons/mi^2 as our "minimum".<BR>
<BR>
Ah, I didn't see that message (or didn't see that part). I've been getting<BR>
empty messages from the TML lately, and I'm also extremely sleep-deprived;<BR>
either could be the cause.<BR>
<BR>
I'm happy with this calculation. Even with a monomolecular sheet (ie.<BR>
near-miraculaous tensile strength) we've got a hard limit. Great.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
>> (As a matter of principle, I dislike the word "impossible" when applied to<BR>
>> engineering.)<BR>
><BR>
>Ok, let me know when you've figured out how to stuff something into a<BR>
>box smaller than it is. :-)<BR>
<BR>
Fold it? :-)<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1999 20:52:21 +0000<BR>
From: Bradley L Houston <brhoust@juno.com><BR>
Subject: Re:  LEO<BR>
<BR>
I've been watching the posts about different agencies with<BR>
cross-jurisdiction.  What about differing enforcement policies?<BR>
<BR>
In the Phoenix area there are multiple police departments- Phoenix,<BR>
Tempe, Mesa, Chandler, Gilbert, Scottsdale, Paradise Valley, Glendale,<BR>
just to name a few.  There is also the Maricopa County sheriffs<BR>
Department, The "Department of Public Safety/Highway Patrol."  There is<BR>
also a military base with AP (Air Police) and other Federal assets which<BR>
have either "rent-a-cops" or federal police of various sorts.    Then you<BR>
can add in  the "Border Patrol" /INS (Immigration and Naturalization),<BR>
the DEA (Drug Enforcement Agency), the FBI, and the ATF (Bureau of<BR>
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms).<BR>
<BR>
As far as the enforcement-Some of the cities have "photo-radar."  This is<BR>
vehicle they park alongside the road-it clocks your speed, takes a<BR>
picture of anyone speeding and mails you a ticket.  Other cities have<BR>
"red-light radar."  This is a setup which takes pictures of anyone<BR>
running red lights and mails you a ticket.  Some cities have both and<BR>
some have none.  In some locations the "left turn arrow" comes on before<BR>
the standard green light, in others it comes on after the green light.  <BR>
<BR>
In some places there are stop lights on the on-ramps to the freeway, in<BR>
others there are not.  <BR>
<BR>
Beyond traffic law, in Mesa at one point it was illegal to smoke<BR>
cigarettes anywhere where a non-smoker had to be exposed to the smoke in<BR>
order to enter a public building.  If I remember right the Fire<BR>
Department was responsible for writing the ticket-but I could be wrong.  <BR>
<BR>
I guess that would be a balkanized law enforcement setup.  What a<BR>
nightmare for the crew of the Far Trader who rented a grav car to drive<BR>
to that important business meeting. <BR>
<BR>
Bradley Houston<BR>
<BR>
tc+   ?t4>+  @ge  3i(+)   c+  jt  au  @ls  pi+()  so-()  zh vi-  da  <BR>
Brad Houston 0509 C478855-C S so- zh vi da 623<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1433<BR>
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